+4% Armor resistances (-1% per level)

There is some concern that the new Apoc will have a significant cap weakness...

This is a fun one. Bet you guys didn't think ...

...The recharge rate is a nice + on the apoc but does not compensate the loss in cap, it might shoot some nice lasers but most likely not long enough to actually kill stuff (guardians/scimi anyone?) and in prolonged fights it will hurt its ability to keep on going and on top of that there is the -700 armor.

...You are telling kil2 that he doesn't understand anything about Amarr? wat.

God damn the amount of stupidity in this thread....

Very nice changes. They make Amarr BSs way more versatile. Love the new Geddon!

...2. Leave Apoc alone, or change new tracking bonus with something different. Something coordinated with optimal bonus. Probably damage +5% per level...

Amarr have a much sturdier resist profile though. Dropping a high for a low for what I assume you want to use for tank would be terrible. And why drop an actual gun for a heat sink if that's what you're thinking?

Also these updates don't really address any of the problems people have brought up. Amarr will still suffer from a severe problem of cap usage.

Armageddon is still OP, it have bonused drones and can spare highlots to have gamechanging beyond-the-tacking-range Heavy Neuts.

Bonus to neuting range is strong, extremely strong bonus and it should not belong to combat ship especially t1 one. Can you consider change of bonus to neuting power? this is extremely powerful bonus as well but at least it is not game-breaking.

Hello Amarrian citizens...

...This is a second time in the same racial line that this has come up, and it has not happend ( as far as I know) to any other racial line, something is afoot.

I'm still a little confused why anyone would use the Apoc over the Oracle. The Oracle can at least fit a full rack of Tachyons without too much trouble. The Apoc still needs fitting mods just to do something the attack battlecruiser can do naturally.

It has been mentioned elsewhere, but what about adding a role bonus on all the attack battleships for the MJD, at least then you have a reason to fly them over the attack BCs.

I think it should, but as a pure laser gunboat.

'gankageddon'

THAT is the pedigree, or flavour as CCP Rise puts it, that has been built up over the last 10 years, not some basterdised version of the Dominix.

...Despite the fact that clearly there are people who were happy with the Amarr battleships in their former state, overall there was a significant gap in use between apoc/geddon and most other battleships (the only BS used less was the hyperion)....

I'd still like it if the option were explored to make ship bonuses either repair amount or raw armor/shield amount (like the Augoror)... reserving resistance bonuses for T2 boats. I think this would be much easier to balance over all.

This is my exact feeling. I think the Abaddon would suit this role of drone/missile ship so much better. Simply switch the projected changes between the two and let us keep the Geddon doing what it does best .. blasting things with lots of lazers.

This is not true of Large weapon system, and so the change has a real impact on the the existing payer base, looking at 2-3 months of training to gain 2 new heavy weapon systems is a big deal.
That translates to on June-6th we will loose a viable Battleship, and then have to debate the merits of training to fly the new ship well.

The changes to Lasers have soffened this a good deal, but it is still a real issue, that seems to be absent from the planing at CCP.

Veshta - I have been staunchly against these changes since they were announced. Not because I am against change - far from it - but because of what they the changes are based on, what they have ignored, and the negative impact they will have on this line of ships.

Did I miss a post about Large Missiles getting love ?

...Having to relegate an entire line of BS's to nothing but Scorch is incredibly broken to me.

EVE is a game where rails and blasters both have their upsides and downsides. Arty and autocannons too. We just saw reductions and adjustments in the medium missile lines to bring the two seperate sides to more equitable footing. So why is it "Lol scorch" is the only acceptable answer for Amarr?

There are issues with all the systems, and missiles definitely need more of a rework than lasers, but as-is, only one item is going to be getting use: Mega Pulse Laser II's with scorch. Without a major laser rebalance, Tachyons are the one item that stand a chance of changing that- sorry for hoping of fitting something else :(

for the oversized thing simply compare the number of turrets that Amaar and Minmatar have....

LOL OKAY
A battleship can't fit 8 of these oversized guns, but a battlecruiser can do it without nearly as much trouble.
Anybody else see the problem with that?

I think its bs to have the geddon lose a slot compared to the others. Yeah it totally looks like a tiercide when the tier 1 bs loses 1 slot while the other 2 stay the same.

...How does this remotely resemble balance?

Why does the Hyperion then which is also an active tanker have the same recharge rate as a Mael? Considering Maels can run dual xlarge ASB's which use no cap while all the amour active modules do use cap.

[And that takes into account that Abaddons might want to active tank too in some settings and it's weapon systems use infinitely more cap than Mael's?...

Mael should have something nerfed to be not viable for large scale then, going by your logic.

CCP : Please for the love of god, ignore anyone suggesting that the Abaddon should be made into anything other than a tanky laser gunship.

I sense Fozzie's strong influence in this...

Care to enlighten the rest of us? I'd sure like to know his justification for nerfing an already underused ship into obsolescence.

Maybe you missed the part where I mentioned how neither bonus matters if you can't fire your guns.

The Abaddon has more PG and CPU, so it can fit cap boosters and also accommodate the drawback of an elutriation rig (which pretty much everyone uses). Even with the T2 rig the thing still sucks cap like no other. With nothing else running, the T2 rig, and just one heat sink, the ship isn't even currently stable firing the lowest cap-use ammo (standard) and with multifrequency only lasts just under 5 minutes. 10% less cap use isn't going to change this a whole lot.....

the reduction is significant.

but is also considered insignificant to the previous hull bonus.

Thanks, I did it. The point is, there's already T1 Nos/Neut BS. If you somehow displeased with it's performance - GO AND FIX IT.

Also if fights above 60 km were actually that rare, nobody would use sniper nagas or alpha fleets. But they do.

..wowowow wait a second. Try to fit 6 1400MM T2 on a tempest and see how amazing the tank you can still fit.

You are not supposed to field a heavy tank with a full rack of largest weapons. The rokh capability of doign so is the out of line ....

Do not type crap like that without verification. Tempest CANNOT fit a full rack of 1400 T2 witout usign a T2 RCU and after that it barely can fit the MWD with NO tank. Stop spreadign LIES

After all the feedback between this thread...

Just shut up man. You are just damaging the messag eyou want to transmit you are just makign ammar whinner s look stupid. You really thinks it makes any difference 35 pg or the inclusion of these extra 500 pG?...

...The Apoc, even if it's 100% cap stable firing lasers, will be left as a stepping stone to the Abaddon.

So, unless you have an example of an amarr ship unable to run "something" for "some time", they are already perfectly fine. Besides some carebear actually asked for its ship to run all its guns and the armor reper for 5 minutes. That is "everything" "for a long time". Five minutes are an eternity in a pvp fight, and IMO, they are a very long time for pve.

First, pulse baddon are already very effective, and that's undeniable.

Second, in BS pvp, you often, if not always, have a cap booster.

You are actually caught on the idea that the Abaddon is bad. The problem is that it is a wrong idea. The Abaddon is not bad, hence, it doesn't need a buff.

Yes, capacitor is hard on amarr ships, yet, does that make them bad ? I wait for an argumented answer.

You guys are way too focused on capacitor, it's an obsession.

ROFL!

after some testing on duality I come to the conclution that the geddon is out shadowing the dominix by far too much it needs a role change I think it would work well as a faster more dps less tank laser brawler...

I truly wish I had time to test these changes on Duality, but as I don't I've just been reading what others have posted so far. Judging from what's been posted about Amarr, CCP has given us the proverbial "finger." I really only say this because of the absolute lack of response in this thread from CCP reps while there's be so much outcry, theorycrafting, and suggestions. Then we have the actual test reports from a few saying that we, as Amarr pilots, are getting a bad deal here...

...its just an inversion, In fact ammar way is WAY better because at level 1 you get ALL FULL firepower.

... Know why? ...

Its imposible to reason with this people they live in a world where you can eliminate a 50% cap bonus and solve it with a 10% reduction in cap use, also a world where a cap warfare ship that can-¦t fit 7 x meta 4 large neut + 2 meta 4 large cap booster + some (again) meta 4 buffer tank without 2 fitting modules its "a fun one" ship to fly, but its ok , because:

I'm pretty much out of math for now on the whole Amarr debacle...

Just crunched some numbers, somebody probably could back this up- even with the tracking bonus, Amarr pulse lasers will still have worse tracking than autocannons or blasters (unbonused). More range than either, yes, but not more tracking. Seems the Apoc is supposed to be a sniper-only boat, if that's the case. If I wanted to fit the Apoc for tracking down frigs, I'd be better off fitting blasters or autocannons- something just isn't right about that.

...The Amarr are retaining their racial traits for better or worse...

1. Denial.
2. Anger. <---We should be here!
3. Bargaining.
4. Depression.
5. Acceptance.

.. "Save the Armageddon!"..

The post you quoted even had the words, "test server" in it...

And he mentioned having 4 turrets, which the TQ Navy Omen does not...

Yikes.

He took issue with the statement that it's cap stable on just it's guns. I informed him he was misunderstanding. That's all.

That's the only statement being made there. That's it's cap stable with it's guns running. What else can you manage to infer from this statement, I don't know.

...Apocalypse still sucks, it is a cap hungry ship with bad tank, tracking bonus translates to ~25% more damage to cruisers orbiting at 20km, against battleships, frigates and battlecruisers the difference is much smaller. Other ships have that damage bonus in all situations, and in the old apocalypse if i wanted tracking i could fit for tracking, now my slots are occupied with discharge rigs and cap boosters....

... believe it was in response to people claiming he Armageddon to be too OP.

...seriously, why have you all just accepting this heap of ****?

not sure if you're aware but the most successful alliance in your militia runs nothing but amarr ships for doctrines, damage types be damned the armageddon is ****

Now, get a new player with 2-3 top in all skills, and make it work. Just work, without "well".